HeartTalk with Chris Schmied
HeartTalk is WorldPoint’s web video interview series where we ask important questions to leading experts in the CPR and healthcare industry to learn about the important topics that affect people today. Exciting, informative, and educational, HeartTalk will provide you with never-before-heard stories, real-life industry experiences, and actionable takeaways. Watch HeartTalk to gain fresh and valuable insights into how we can all work together to improve patient outcomes!
In this episode of HeartTalk, WorldPoint traveled to Canada and spoke with Chris Schmied of St. John Ambulance about SJA's mission, saving lives, and gender and racial disparities in bystander CPR.
Read the transcript below or watch the video!
Shelly
Well, hello. Welcome to Heart. To HeartTalk is an opportunity for WorldPoint to showcase industry leaders and influencers who are passionate about and doing work in the resuscitation of training and healthcare field. So excited to be with you here today, Chris. Why don't we start by having you introduce yourself. Why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and the organization you work for?
Chris
I'm Chris Schmied, Director of Training, Learning, and Training development for Ontario Council— or for the province of Ontario for lack of a better term—for St. John Ambulance. St. John Ambulance is the oldest first aid training organization in the world. We have been in Canada 75 plus years. And we're an industry leader in first aid training as well as health and safety training. We train the Canadian military, Department of National Defense, which is encompasses Army, Navy, and Air Force.
Shelly
How did you—how did you get involved with St. John Ambulance and, CPR, first aid training?
Chris
I worked for a health care company, a global health care company, and I was manager of learning there. What ended up happening was they needed somebody to teach first aid to our nurses and our medical staff. So they asked me, could you become a first aid instructor? And of course I was interested and did and this is going back now over 20 years. I did that and really got to know St. John Ambulance as an organization and kept up with that, volunteered some time in between. This job opened up and St. John offered it to me and I was really, really excited for the opportunity and love what I do.
Shelly
So speaking of loving what you do, that's the one thing that I feel like our—the people that we interview— have in common, right? There’s this, like, commitment and passion for making a difference and saving lives and improving outcomes. Can you talk a little bit about the opportunities that you've had in your training organization to make a difference?
Chris
Well, you use the word passion. When I interview people, to instructors to come on, I look for the passion. I can teach them how to teach. We can teach them first aid. We can teach them about almost anything they need to re-teach. I cannot teach you passion. We take a lot of pride in the fact that we save lives.
Shelly
This annual conference—you’ve got instructors coming from all over Ontario, right? You are responsible for running the breakout session and I sat in on one of them with you and you've got another one later today. Talk about where—where did that come from, that idea? And share a little bit about kind of what you're doing differently.
Chris
Right. Where did that come from? When we see statistics that are sometimes shocking and it could be through opioid poisonings and overdoses, it can be through a public access, defibrillation, it could be through just essentially people not taking the time to learn CPR and to take charge in a situation. When we see that, we need to change that dynamic. So St. John Ambulance has something called a raison d'être, which again is French for “reason for being.” What is our reason for being is in the service of humanity and in doing that we need to empower people to be able to save lives.
When we saw the statistic that only 39% of women in the public eye get somebody survived because somebody is doing CPR on them, that's unacceptable. It's unacceptable and it's something that we need to change. And if we don't change it, who will? Again, it's you've got to step up to the plate and say, you know what, I see a problem and I don't want to hear something needs to change. Who is going to do something about it? Somebody needs to do something. Let's make that us. Let us be the narrative. Let us be the people who make the change. Let's bring that statistic up. Let’s bring that number as close to 100% survival as we can. Will it ever be that? Probably not. But 39% is unacceptable it is unacceptable. We've got to change that narrative.
Shelly
And so that is where people are unable or unwilling to provide—generally bystanders, right?—provide CPR on women. Why is that?
Chris
There are a number of factors. So one of the factors of course, is simple knowledge and training—they don't have it. So a certain percentage of the population doesn't do it because they wouldn't know what to do because they haven't been trained. Another segment of the population, predominantly men—and I don't want to be exclusive about that—but predominantly men are afraid to do something because they're concerned about “Am I going to be accused of inappropriate touch/sexual assault?” and that type of thing.
And then there's a population of people who say, well, you know, if it's an elderly woman—and it can be, be because people of every age can suffer cardiac arrest—“Am I going to hurt them?” And my answer is always the same. Yes, you might break ribs. Ribs heal. We can heal ribs. We can’t fix dead. We can fix ribs.
And then there's the outlying belief that women simply don't suffer cardiac arrest. So this likely isn’t a cardiac arrest. Well—and it's a small portion of the population that believes it—but it's out there. Both men and women suffer cardiac arrest. And then finally, there is a small segment of the population that believes, “well, maybe they're just being overly dramatic.” If they're not breathing, they're not being overly dramatic. They're likely in cardiac arrest.
Shelly
So your passion for making a difference and truly awareness around health equity and inclusion and diversity how's it being received throughout your organization? And then throughout the world—around your organization—that you're training?
Chris
What I'm finding within the organization is they're open to it. They're very receptive. Our instructors hear that and say, “Well, we've got to, we do have to change that narrative.” So when I do talk to instructors, they agree that that narrative is essentially it's the dynamic must change. How is it being received outside of our instructor base, our our St. John family of branches? That remains to be seen because we haven't truly launched this campaign. I want to see results happen. I would like to get 3 to 5 years, hear the next statistic, and just be flabbergasted with the number being considerably higher in survival rates.
Shelly
One of the things around CPR is how do we get to the next generation, right? How do we make CPR important to the next generation? And so I did notice that you have some cadet programs and youth programs. Can you talk a little bit about what St. John Ambulance is doing to very intentionally make CPR important to this younger next generation?
Chris
Well, I'm glad you bring that up. So we do have a segment of St. John's called The Youth Group, and they become interested in it. They go to some of our volunteer events and they learn from some of the senior people. There is the aspect of the learning that they have and what we find is the people that do come to us as volunteers aren't just passionate about wanting to make a difference. They're passionate about learning more. They want to learn to save lives. They want to learn to make a difference. And, and of course, when they do save a life, it feels good. When they do help somebody, even if it's just an injury, even if it's just a sprained ankle, even if it's a fractured wrist from a fall, they feel good to know that they've made a difference.
Shelly
So you are pioneering right now as we speak around health equity and inclusion and diversity and commitment around pieces that you can bring to your training to make training more representative of the world that we serve here in 2023. What are some other opportunities for your training or the things that you're passionate about that you would like to see bring to St. John Ambulance first aid/CPR training the next few years?
Chris
The days of the…every manikin looking exactly the same—you need to go—in CPR. There was a time when I first got into this business where you would line up 20 mannequins along the wall for a class of 20 people and they look, they're clones of each other. Well, that's not the reality of the world. We have men and women. We have different skin tones. We look different. And and that's the beautiful part of the world, is that we don't all look exactly alike. And we're we're different in so many different ways. People should be able to come into a classroom and say, “Hey, I'm represented here.” And not just that, but I'm going to get a manikin who doesn't necessarily look exactly like me.”
Well, at the end of the day, when somebody drops in front of you from a parking lot or in a mall or at a restaurant, they aren't necessarily going to look like you. They're not necessarily going to be your clone. They may of a different sex. They may have a different skin tone. So why shouldn't your manikin reflect that? You don't choose who's going to drop in front of you and that life is no less valuable. I talked about it yesterday, again, with the statistic of women not surviving CPR. Well, their lives are no less valuable. They’re our mothers, our sisters, our aunts, our partners. Our friends, our neighbors. They're no less valuable. So why are we not showing that in the classroom?
Shelly
And that's very good training to be able to increase bystander CPR or improve outcomes for everybody.
Chris
And and it's an education thing. We've got to get our instructors to get people to think differently and to put away their fears, put away or their fears of fracturing ribs of elderly or petite people. To not worry about the female anatomy when it comes to doing CPR or defibrillation. And that, again, it's a life. And if you have taken CPR, you've taken CPR to save a life, what does it matter whether that life is male or female or or what color the skin is—it doesn't and shouldn’t.
Shelly
Agreed. So you were doing some incredible work in your role in this organization. I have to believe that sometimes it's a challenge. What's hard about what you do?
Chris
I think one of the toughest things that I run into isn’t with changing instructors’ mindset in training. I think you saw that yesterday in our in our training that the few instructors that were there were on board with that. It's changing the mindset of the public. It's taking that fear of “I'm going to potentially be accused of sexual assault. I'm going to be potentially accused of inappropriate touching. And I don't want that.” But we need to change that mindset. There is work to be done, But we're ready to do it.
Shelly
Excellent. So my last question for you. I'm always curious about that—at the end of the day. Why do you do what you do and what brings you to your role every day? What…what brings you life in what you do every day?
Chris
I want to make a difference. I want to make that difference in many, many lives. And the—it's almost the beauty of what I do is I will never truly know how many lives I’ve affected in saving lives. But I know I have. I've had people come to me and say, “Because of something one of your instructors taught me, I saved my father's life, my brother's life, my boss' life, a friend's life, my son's life. I've been able to do that because of something I learned at St. John Ambulance.” I hear that either reading it in an email or hear it over the phone, and I'm walking on sunshine for the rest of the day because I know I’ve made a difference. I want to continue to do that. I never get tired of it. Don't think I ever will. And I and I very much appreciate that. It gets me out of bed every morning. It drives me. It keeps that fire inside of me to be able to do that. So will I change the world? Probably not. Will I change some people's world? Yes, I will. And and I'm not going to stop.
Shelly
Absolutely. I love your heart and your passion and the incredible privilege that you…you get to bring life to people. So thank you for your service.
Chris
I feel privileged. I do. Thank you.
Shelly
I feel that in you, so, thank you. Appreciate your heart. And thank you for your time today, Chris.
Chris
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
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